Author Topic: General Controllerism Approach?  (Read 1830 times)

bd36576

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General Controllerism Approach?
« on: November 24, 2008, 04:52:52 PM »
Hi Gang,

I've spoken with a buddy of mine that DJs with MIDI, Ableton, Tracktor.  Here's my question:

If I want to run a hybrid approach to controllerism in the form of "traditional 2 turntable DJ style" + "Moldover/sound manipulation style" do I need to run Tracktor or can I simply use Ableton?

I'm TOTALLY new to this.  Any insight is appreciated.

cheers.

FractalEarth

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Re: General Controllerism Approach?
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2008, 06:23:56 PM »
I really don't have much experience with djing but I'd imagine that there are certain things that would apply that you would only need Ableton for, on the other hand, I'm sure that being that you will be using turntables, Traktor will have it's own benefits taht may outweigh the use within Ableton. I'd say you'll most likely find yourself at one point or another using a combination of the two. Or if you're dead set on getting all of you're stuff to flow through ableton only, I'd record and export any effects or sounds that you wanted to use that traktor would allow for, then bring that audio file over into Ableton and simply trigger it at the appropriate time.  I hope that helps somewhat.

S4racen

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Re: General Controllerism Approach?
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2008, 08:56:33 AM »
Hi ya,

My set-up is i think (or imagine what your aiming for.....

I have time code control vinyl on the 1210's which controls Deckadance, this can run as a vst inside ableton but i run it as a seperate application and wire the audio between it and Ableton using Jackpilot....

Then i have two channels in ableton for the lieft and right deck, two channels as effects banks that can be selected from any other channel using some sends routings, these channels also have dummy clips on for some programmed mangling, Then i have four channels of clips in ableton (one of which can switch to an audio intput from a CDJ.....


this setup lets me DJ or control whenever i feel in the mood and combione the two.....

CHeers
D
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bd36576

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Re: General Controllerism Approach?
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2008, 02:07:27 PM »
Thanks for the insight, y'all.  To properly work Tracktor, would I need to run a turn table of some sort:  cd, vinyl, etc?

Thanks.

S4racen

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Re: General Controllerism Approach?
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2008, 06:24:25 PM »
No it can all be done in the box as they say, in fact download the demo to pro and test it out, you get half hour before you have to quit and reload, a couple of good runs might help decide whether it's worth shelling out for?

For me i already had a good audio interface so didn't want another one, hence the reason i went for deckadance over traktor, it offers less functionality but it does exactly what i need it to...

Cheers
D
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bd36576

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Re: General Controllerism Approach?
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2008, 09:18:38 PM »
Sweet.  So, if I don't want to use Turntables or mimic turntables and just want to play music live that is beat matched like a DJ, BUT with the fun effects I'm able to do via Ableton....I can just run it all through Abelton, right?

Thanks a lot, guys.



S4racen

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Re: General Controllerism Approach?
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2008, 05:56:03 AM »
Run everything through ableton! It's the most fun you can have, i've only added the other options as sometimes it's good to go oldskool with the vinyl, especially whjen freinds come round....

Cheers
D
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DvlsAdvct

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Re: General Controllerism Approach?
« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2008, 11:58:53 AM »
At http://www.djtechtools.com, BentoSan has a great tutorial to get Traktor audio routed into Ableton Live so you can use Ableton effects and loops and all sync'd up with Traktor.  It's really amazing stuff you can play with.
The revolution will be digitized
Classic Setup: VCI-100, PadKontrol
Controllerism Setup: Remote 25SL, MidiFighter, VCI-100 for effect control

necromancer

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Re: General Controllerism Approach?
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2009, 01:00:58 PM »
I perform with a friend of mine who runs the turntables through Traktor, while I use Ableton to perform new compositions or re-arrange compositions that we created in the studio. Traktor sends MIDI clock data (and if I could get LiveOSC to work on OS X, it would send OSC data...), so no matter where we are in the set, Ableton is ALWAYS automatically tempo-synced to Traktor. I know that we can just pre-warp all the tracks in Ableton before we go on stage, but our library is MASSIVE, and we'd only be able to fit enough tracks for a set, which means we'd have to plan out our set beforehand, which we don't like doing. Being able to actually spin tracks on turntables, and sample through turntables, encourages improvisation.

I wouldn't recommend trying an Ableton+Traktor setup unless you have one person manning each program. A single person is just not enough to get the REAL power out of these programs.

Mudo

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Re: General Controllerism Approach?
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2009, 02:10:38 PM »
...
Use PinkyVst.


...

Kipp

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Re: General Controllerism Approach?
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2009, 03:15:24 PM »
The big issue regarding digital DJ'ing this year will be the marriage of Traktor to Ableton. I know the two companies are working closely with each other right now, and I would bet body parts that this is their #1 task at hand because so many traditional two-turntables DJ's are migrating to digital, but if they are used to only spinning they want that feel preserved, and I can certainly understand that.
  We have accepted digital as a new frontier, so there are absolutely no turntables in the system we are currently using. I asked my collaborator if he wanted me to look into a way to incorporate a turntable software package into our system, but he is perfectly happy with the way we are using Ableton right now. I think we are using Ableton a little differently than most cats are though. Keep in mind that it's all in the mix when it's all said and done. Ableton is more akin to old-school-style multi-track mixing in a studio where you have access to as many stereo tracks as your hard drive can handle, and you fade these in and out with each other. We have entire songs loaded into the spaces where clips or loops would normally be placed, and we limit ourselves to eight columns,"tracks", or "channels" if you will. We load the bottom four or five rows with full-length completed tracks by other artists or tracks we have created in the studio. Then, above those, we have a lot of different low-register kick beats to choose from that are loops, although some are quite long being anywhere from a couple measures up to a couple minutes in length.
  The remaining spaces - and there is plenty of room in a single Ableton set to render a four or five-hour-long performance-The remaining spaces contain various percussion elements, synth lines/runs, and loops, as well as pre-recorded sequences, beats, or loops of parts of entire songs.
  Now - we rigged up a Logitech joystick to the laptop which allows us to "drive around" on Ableton's screen among the 144 some odd clips per set that we have loaded, and we can basically cherry-pick which clips we want to play. When we land on the single clipo we want to play next, we just pull the trigger on the thing and the clip will begin playing on the next "one" count that rolls around.
  Ableton also has a great MIDI clock signal and that allows us to attach some wild external MIDI devices like say an Electribe, an MPC whatever-thousand, grooveboxes, sequencers, drum machines - There is no end to the options, so yes-while you may lose the ability to scratch, which is a bi-proiduct of the nature of how the turntable works, there are, on the other hand, thousands of hidden tricks or "moves" if you will hiding out in the built-in effects in Ableton as well as a KP3 tossed into the mix.
  I can type until my fingers bleed, but actions speak louder than words, so here is just one massive example of what can be accomplished using Ableton Live:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZS1p7aAngs

Mudo

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Re: General Controllerism Approach?
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2009, 05:02:56 AM »
...
Hi Kipp (and friends),
Your approarch is great but the new Tablism level (Turntablism, Controllerism, Tooltablism) is using Tools for perform. Controls, Turntables... all is useful!

The Mix Dj could attack the paradigm from many ways:
Classical Setup
Classical Setup + DVS
Classical Setup + Ableton with Pinkyvst

Controllerism Setup

Controllerism + Turntable (one) (we are entering the Tooltablism)
Tooltablism (ever Tool that you could imagine, like your setup), Video include.

I wonder Veejays doing controllerism? Turntablist doing Visuals? Controllerist using Turntables?
Desesperate Organization... only Free Creative Humans.

And the partnership is Serato&Ableton not Traktor. The most possible is Native control of Ableton Live from Serato DVS trought Max for Live (and add Video surely) and this is the most possible because Turntablist djs need Turntables and Mix dj like Ean Golden could perform with an VCI and Controllerist like Moldover could use Hacked hard...

The Future (or present) is modular DIY setups and dedicated hardware for software like APC40. In the middle all of us.

;)

...

aeriae

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Re: General Controllerism Approach?
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2009, 06:38:33 AM »
Everyone's gonna have their own idea about controllerism as we're all calling it. For me, I had zero interest in the dj or turntable parts when I came to it. I just latched onto the idea of expressive physical control of my own entirely computer made music, and using midi equipment, and placing all information in the computer, not hardware. Then when I started developing my system, I found that a lot of the dj-y and turntably approach that was built into Moldover's templates was rubbing off on me. Both in physical terms, and also in that I did start to mash some tracks together, but 95% of what is heard live is my audio, not anyone else's tracks. In summary, it's the combo of interface design in midi and software and the practical physical approach that allows me to perform my own music live in a way I hadn't anticipated.. that is what I have gratefully taken from the controllerism project.

Kipp

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Re: General Controllerism Approach?
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2009, 08:36:07 PM »
The coolest "dilemma" that digital DJ systems pose is that there so many different options regarding how to go about establishing your own techniques, routing, methods/rules of use, and peripherals. We debuted our system at a show last Thursday night and there were just as many kids behind our table on stage as there were dancing (the room wasn't packed as it was 26 below & nobody's car would start). They had a thousand questions for us, and then we got invited to do a massive private party the next evening in Des Moines where we got booked to do even more shows and were offered a remix for a label out of Minnesota. Digital is slowly catching on here, so there are a lot of lap tops, and most kids are running Traktor on them. So the party was a chance to let some of these kids try out our system. They loved it! I mean - once it sinks in how much sheer power it has and the number of options it offers, they forget all about the inability to perform any scratching type functions. The thing is - there are whole songs loaded in as clips right along with grooves and loops. The music can, and does, go on for hours uninterrupted. We still have thousands of options, tricks, moves, and other intricacies to discover and learn about in our system yet. I designed it to be that mysterious on purpose so it never becomes boring or predictable. For those of you who haven't seen our "carnival-in-a-bag" in action yet, here are the two best demonstrative clips of it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgb79okcCms

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZS1p7aAngs&feature=related

    It all packs up into a single gym bag that I carry in one hand. I have labeled all of the components on the video, so watch it and hopefully you will have your own epiphany as to your own individual and unique digital system ideas.  I will always answer any questions you may have regarding these topics.

    Kipp Wieland

bd36576

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Re: General Controllerism Approach?
« Reply #14 on: February 28, 2009, 06:11:52 PM »
Great posts, thanks guys.  I'm going to stick with Ableton only at this point.