Author Topic: Re-creating BeatLookup native in Ableton (UPDATED WITH VIDEO!)  (Read 3882 times)

S4racen

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UPDATE: http://www.screencast.com/t/Ok7NVsb6IPa

The original plan was to use a lot of audio clips, this works fine but when deleting the clips to start a new pass it's a little clunky. With the advent of Live 8's Looper i've been able to implement a much classier solution. The video in part shows how the setup works (without much of an audio demonstration) but you can download the set and bomes script from thestudiosessions.co.uk

Cheers
D



Hi All,

Using the Beta for Live 8, Reaktor i find is quite temperamental so this has led to me wanting to recreate the effects of Beatlookup resident in Live.....

Whilst many of the effects like buzz sound good, in practise i've not used them often....

The main usage for me has always been the jump points and with a bit of hackery i've moved up to including 16 jump point at 1/8th intervals meaning i can capture and mash a 2 bar piece of music and with the jumps being quantized it sounds good sonically.....

So the good news is i've managed to reproduce all of this functionality within live using a bomes script written for my Padkontrol...

The bad news is it's a bit complex so if anyones interested i'll write up a step by step guide to re-creating it within your own live set up....

Cheers
D
« Last Edit: May 19, 2009, 03:04:40 AM by S4racen »
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S4racen

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Re: Re-creating BeatLookup native in Ableton
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2009, 09:08:34 AM »
Right then..... First you'll need bomes or equivalent keystroke convertor, then a midi patchbay type affair, and finally an IAC bus (someone fill me in on what PC users will need to have to replace this for Windows)

Done this step by step so sorry if it's a little basic...

1. Create four Audio Tracks like so... Route the signal in from whatever you want your source material to be.....

 

2. Map a Key to the Arm and Speaker on Buttons...


 

3. Midi Map across the Tracks corresponding to the pads on your controller....

 

4 Add a Midi Track and place an Exterbnal Instrument Plug into it setting the output to an IAC bus.....

 

5 Using Midi Patchbay merge the IAC BUs with the standard output of your Midi Controller (in my case my padKontrol is already routed into Farmpad as i use it in native mode with a heavily modified config file)

 

6 Record two clips that are two bars long (this is as long as i've done so far but it's easy enough to make it as long or short as you want....

 

7 Now comes the fiddly bit, in the first clip you'll need to select the envelope for the midi message that corresponds to the midi mapping you gave to clip number 1, in my case that was Control 60 on channel 5....

 

8 Then move along the clip and fire the second clip after an 1/8th of a beat, i tried originally on half beats but you get a much better result as each row of pads on the padkontrol correspond to a whole beats so you can easily work out patterns when mashing it up!

 

9, 10, 11..... Continue doing this until your record clip is firing off the bank of 8 clips mapped into your Audio Tracks......

12 I have then mapped my Knob 1 assign button to Launch my Record clip and at the same time i have a Bomes script which firstly changes the global launch to 16ths and then keystroke translator firing out "A" which turns on the speakers of the tracks and arms them.....

13 You'll see in the Midi track (Looper Control) screenshot that i have no input from any Midi device, as i now launch my Record clip Ableton will cycle through the 8 clip slots recording effectively 1 beat of audio into each slot... This should leave things looking like....



14 If your happy just recording the two bars and then mashing things up then great, i wanted my recorded loop to take over things so i have a follow action on the record clip to launch the Loop clip below after two bars, the Loop clip is virtually identical to the Record clip, it differs in that the Midi envelopes are only open for an 8th of a beat so there is no build up of clips playing on top of each other....

 

15 My recorded clips monitors are set to off but output to an Audio channel set to in this channel simply sums together all the outputs, i tried running the four channels as a group in the Beta of 8 but i just didn't get the Midi response times that i got when i ran them as seperate channels in their own right.....

16 I placed a gate on the original source channel and sidechained it's input from the output of my Recorded Clips Tracks...

 

Now when your jamming firing clips it cuts out the original source signal leaving it sounding clean, of course if you want the original source to come back in over your mashing then simply midi map a knob to the attenuation of the gate, when it's turned up to 0.00db then the gate is bypassed.....


I'll cover off how to delete the clips with one button in a nother post if anyones interested, it's simply the same trick as above but instead you fire a midi message toturn off the speaker and unarm the track, then in a cycle you need to send a midi message which launches the clip as before but whilst it's still playing send another message that correspond to the midi mapping you gave to the track status display, this will then change the view to that of the clips audio. With this in focus your third midi message fires and is converted by bomes to a keystroke in deleting the clip, i run the cycle three times as sometimes the odd clip isn't deleted.......

     
Thanks guys.......

The below should make it easier for midi patchbay....

http://notahat.com/midi_patchbay

I forgot to say that you'll need to go into Abletons preferences and set the launch option for all new clips to gate, otherwise as each clip is created as a loop, triggering it will just see it run round and round and conflict with other clips as you launch them......

Once you've figured the above the next thing to do is to create 16 individual Midi Clips that solely launch a single midi clip for a 16th of a bar, place them below each other in order through one to 16 and place follow actions so that they cycle through.....

Set all of these clips launch action to repeat and the quantize option to global...... Then map a seperate scene on your controller to trigger these clips..... Voila to the best of my knowledge Monome stylee stuff????

Cheers
D

 
« Last Edit: March 11, 2009, 09:20:57 AM by S4racen »
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aeriae

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Re: Re-creating BeatLookup native in Ableton
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2009, 12:50:46 AM »
Just wanted to say, big props on working this all out. I mean I haven't tried it, as I'm using the actual BLU ensemble, but I tried to follow through your instructions carefully in my head and got the basic idea.

S4racen

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Re: Re-creating BeatLookup native in Ableton
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2009, 10:59:29 AM »
Ahh mate, things have taken another couple of steps on since my post....

With Ableton 8's looper giving me the ability to fill a buffer with however long i want i've set up a rack that currently holds 12 loopers....

With different recording clips i can record sections of varying lengths and leave them to be triggered per pad.... Think BLU with 12 jump points where the length of jump can be adjusted so you can have 8 bar loops whilst the button is pressed down or a 1/32 of a bar that loops all the while the button is presssed giving you wicked glitchiness......

With each looper you can assign the slice to go in reverse or indeed assign any effect from within ableton so you could say add a frequency shifter to the third snare or a auto filter to the second kick....

I'm gonna carry on fiddling with it and then i'll post my als. up when i'm happy with it....

Cheers
D
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remotecontrol

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Re: Re-creating BeatLookup native in Ableton
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2009, 09:39:05 PM »
holy crap! sounds great! But geez I spent so much time getting BLU customized the way I want, the idea of starting over with something new is daunting. You did however get me excited to customize BLU with some extra fx sends for each jump point. Good job man. I would love to see a video!

FRGus723

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Re: Re-creating BeatLookup native in Ableton
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2009, 12:24:42 PM »
And it's nice to see you jumping on the Live 8 beta for your work.

Keep it up!

slooshy

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Re: Re-creating BeatLookup native in Ableton
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2009, 02:31:59 AM »
S4racen – much respect for coming up with this – not that I can claim to understand how it works.  I come from a DJ-ing background and I don’t have the technical knowledge you guys have. I want to be able to use BLU but buying Reaktor just for that purpose seems like a lot to spend.  Being able to set up Ableton to do what BLU can do would be great – I would love to be able to set up Ableton like this but I can’t follow the above steps  (also I use PC not Mac). I would appreciate it so much if you created a dummy-proof guide to do what you’re doing. If there was a plugin for ableton that could do this I would definitely pay for it – In fact I’ve been looking at Sugarbytes ‘effectrix’ but I’m not sure it can do what BLU does.
Could someone tell me if the following interpretation of what BLU can do is correct:
It continually records the last bar (or however long) of the material playing in the track. I imagine cue points placed along that recorded section each of which you can cue to using different pads/keys on your midi controller. What I don’t understand is : If you press and release then press and release the same pad/key again will it play the same cue point from the same bar of music or will the shift in time between the first press and second press mean that the second press is playing a later cue point? Can you control how much is played from a cue point when you cue to it? Can you have it loop from the cue point when you hold down the key and can you alter the length of the loop?

S4racen

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Re: Re-creating BeatLookup native in Ableton
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2009, 11:10:40 AM »
S4racen – much respect for coming up with this – not that I can claim to understand how it works.  I come from a DJ-ing background and I don’t have the technical knowledge you guys have. I want to be able to use BLU but buying Reaktor just for that purpose seems like a lot to spend.  Being able to set up Ableton to do what BLU can do would be great – I would love to be able to set up Ableton like this but I can’t follow the above steps  (also I use PC not Mac). I would appreciate it so much if you created a dummy-proof guide to do what you’re doing. If there was a plugin for ableton that could do this I would definitely pay for it – In fact I’ve been looking at Sugarbytes ‘effectrix’ but I’m not sure it can do what BLU does.
Could someone tell me if the following interpretation of what BLU can do is correct:
It continually records the last bar (or however long) of the material playing in the track. I imagine cue points placed along that recorded section each of which you can cue to using different pads/keys on your midi controller. What I don’t understand is : If you press and release then press and release the same pad/key again will it play the same cue point from the same bar of music or will the shift in time between the first press and second press mean that the second press is playing a later cue point? Can you control how much is played from a cue point when you cue to it? Can you have it loop from the cue point when you hold down the key and can you alter the length of the loop?


I'll have a guide to Ableton 8 on djtechtools.com in the next week or so, it'll have a guide to what i'm doing plus a downloadable set, you'll need bomes and Live 8 to make the most of it though as the Looper is the best solution to BLU..... In all honesty the above guide is a dummy proof as it's going to get, you may be better off looking for a simpler version (check out abletonlivedj.com http://abletonlivedj.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=209468#209468 and there'll be a simpler solution thats less customisable based on using beatrepeats in a rack)

With the windows version of bomes things are much simpler as it accepts inptus from various midi inputs neagting the need for the midi patchbay, you'll only need to use the external instrument plug in from ableton to get the midi out of Ableton and into bomes.....

In answer to your question.... Yes! The Slicer i've created allows you to record a slice of audio into a looper, you can control how often this slice of audio is replaced and how long is placed in the buffer, when you cue to it it simply plays the audio in the buffer whislt the original source material continues beneath giving the mashing effect. You can trigger the loopers to play using dummy clips in which case when the button is pressed it will loop until a note off message is sent, you could midi map playing the clip to a toggle midi control in which case the loop would continue indefinitely....

I'm doing some work on how you can reduce the size of the loop in a gradual manner rather than in quantized jumps, then you can some really glitchy effects going, currently you can halve the loop time and again by midi mapping the loop length button, alternatively different dummy clips can give you different loop lengths regardless of the length of the audio recorded.....

As far as i know, effectrix is great, but hardly anyone uses it live, it's mainly for production work.....

Cheers
D
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slooshy

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Re: Re-creating BeatLookup native in Ableton
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2009, 11:50:55 AM »
Thanks for the reply S4racen. I'll definately check out that link for a simpler version but I am tempted to have a go at reproducing your setup - partly because it seems so good but also because hopefully it will force me to learn more about midi and ableton in the process, which will no doubt be helpful in the future. I look forward to your article on djtechtools and I'll let you know how I get on (soon to be purchasing live 8). Cheers

S4racen

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Re: Re-creating BeatLookup native in Ableton
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2009, 04:04:47 AM »
Believe me Live 8 from a controllerist point of view is a sound investment....

I use limiter all the time now and the looper is the mainstay of my mashing and reversing, i'm just experimenting with pitch shifter but i think it's best when used with dummy clips...

I see your putting the hours in at the other forums as well....!! Best bit about this whole thing is getting ideas and turning them into your own.................

Cheers
D
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aeriae

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Re: Re-creating BeatLookup native in Ableton
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2009, 08:36:33 AM »
Slooshy, re: BLU questions -

Quote
If you press and release then press and release the same pad/key again will it play the same cue point from the same bar of music or will the shift in time between the first press and second press mean that the second press is playing a later cue point?

From memory, I think what happens here is that for a set duration which we'll call a block (it may be half a bar, it may be a bar, etc., I forget exactly how long but all you need to know is that it's set), hitting any of the pads will continue to access the same relative sections of the previously recorded bar. But if you kept hitting the pads over the duration of more than a bar, you will start interacting with the material from the next bar. And you will continue to interact with the new material until the buffer moves into the next block, etc.

Quote
Can you control how much is played from a cue point when you cue to it?

I'm using pads for the jumps, and since pads can't be held down like keys, the duration of each jump is set. This is the default BLU via Moldover setup. But I think there's already a dial on the BLU interface for changing the stutter length. If there isn't or it doesn't work how you want, it could be programmed.

The same goes for your last question about altering loop length.

slooshy

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Re: Re-creating BeatLookup native in Ableton
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2009, 12:18:14 PM »
Ah o.k, thanks for explaining aeriae.

S4racen - don't know whether I should post on this or the other forum, but anyway I agree - I want to set it up how you have done then hopefully tweak it to suit me. I have purchased the full version of Bomes so can now get a Midi Yoke cable AND my Midi controller going in. HOWEVER..... I'm stuck on the midi envelope part because what I see does not match what is shown in your screenshots above so I am unable to see a list of Midi messages which includes the notes assigned to the 16 clips. Here is my screen shots:



« Last Edit: May 07, 2009, 12:23:36 PM by slooshy »

slooshy

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Re: Re-creating BeatLookup native in Ableton
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2009, 01:34:48 PM »
Ok, I get it now, for each of the Midi notes I assigned to the 16 clips, one of those (controller) numbers corresponds to it. How do you know which numbers correspond to which notes?

S4racen

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Re: Re-creating BeatLookup native in Ableton
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2009, 04:11:28 PM »
Ok, simple answer as i can't access my Live 7 set anymore as the beta of 8 corrupted it...

Select Midi Map mode and then open the browser, your looking for the mappings of all the clips, which should be quite easy?

Bomes is essential to controllerism for me so good buy... Wish i could help you with 7 but my Mac doesn't like it anymore so i'm steaming ahead with 8....

Happy to help when i've got a bit of time, you on facebook?

Cheers
D
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slooshy

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Re: Re-creating BeatLookup native in Ableton
« Reply #14 on: May 09, 2009, 08:12:41 AM »
S4racen, on your screenshots your Midi mappings to the clips say 5/60, 5/61, 5/62 .... and so on. But when I map keys on my M-Audio Oxygen 8 to the clips in Ableton I get 1/D4, 1/E4, 1F4.... and so on - so there is not a Midi envelope corresponding to these. This is what I don't understand. If anyone could help explain this I would really appreciate it.