Midi Learn Issue with Reaktor/Ableton and Novation

[FRGus723]

Hello all,

I am so confused right now and looking for some help.  I went through some of the posts but there is some conflicting info.

Basically I am trying to use Automap 3 to map Moldovers Reaktor ensembles through Ableton and not much is working.

The automap feature has not worked as I wished and am a bit turned off by it now with all the problems I am having.  Even when I loaded up one of their predefined B4 template it still only controlled about 1/2 the functions available.  I would prefer to create my own template from scratch but even that is not working.  Not sure whether reaktor or ableton want CC control numbers or notes.

For starters I am using template 38 which is a user defined automap template, I have Automap running in the background.  When I use the Learn Once feature it lets me map Moldovers Backgroundifier Effect in Song 1.  It also allows me to map the vocal remover to a button as well.  When I try to map the Smart Knob, no matter what I do it always assigns it to the same Backgroundifier effect in Reaktor.  So in essence I now have a button that turns it on as well as an encoder.  Obviously not what I want.  I read the Novation manual and it was pretty useless.

I am not sure what ports to have enabled in Live Midi Prefs.  Currently I have Port 1 as it says this one is for non automapped.  I have tried 2 as well.  Since leaving the ouput to either port causes the novation to always call up the Ableton Live template 40 I shut that off as Aeriae had said in another post.

Can someone who has used the novation sl with ableton running moldovers ensembles help me with this mapping stuff.  I am already 1/2 the way through a good bottle of scotch due to my frustration.  I need help, in more ways then 1.

This post is all over the place, sorry.

Any help much apreciated
FRGus723

[aeriae]

It's good you read through everything here trying to work it out, but the fundamental place you've gone wrong is in using automap. You don't want automap at all for this, you just want bog standard midi mapping.

To this end, you should use a template in the Novation that is not automap-related, but above all, you should completely turn off the automap software on your computer. If you turn it off or delete it, there's no way it can activate. I mean it's been 9 months since I did my initial setup, but I recall that I just made a zipped archive of the automap software application, and kept that handy in case I ever did want it, but then I deleted the automap app itself. This stopped it from ever turning on. There may be a less drastic way that I've forgotten, but it's not a big deal.

Once you've done that, the relationship between Live and the Novation should just be 1-way. You send messages out of the Novation, through its virtual port 1, and they are received by Live. So you're right to stick with port 1 in Live's preferences, and DON'T set it so that Live is going anyway in the 'out' tabs.

With this 1-way flow, the Novation can't make decisions for you. You don't want it changing templates based on what it thinks is right by polling your computer. You want it to stick with the template you've chosen  and are working on.

Summary version of this is -- turn the dial on the Novation to select the template you're going to use and work on. Then press 'global' - then press 'write' twice... I'm going on memory here, but this will set the current template to be the one that boots when the Novation is turned on. Then press 'play' again.

This is a bit crash coursey, but I'm trying to just get you on the right track. For details on performing specific actions mentioned here, the Novation manual should be able to help.

[FRGus723]

Aeriae as always much appreciated.  I've go it loaded so that I can now program everything in Ableton.  The problem is setting it up the way you suggested somehow makes it so that the Novation cannot speak to Reaktor Plugins (Moldovers specifically)  I am not sure how to map the Reaktor stuff through Ableton.  Midi Learn in Reaktor does nothing, as far as I know you can't use Ableton's midi learn to program a plugin so I am stuck.  As well, since I am no longer using Automap should I now use the non automapped plugins.  Essentially when you first bring up automap it wraps each plugin with a Novation wrapper so that now you can learn using the automap.  Should I use the regular plugins and not the automapped ones?  I tried and it didnt make a difference so i am not sure what to do now.

The novation manual really talks mostly about using the automap software.  I am using template 36 which is a user defined template.

I have somehow switched off the ability for the controller to send any messages to the Reaktor plugins.  Anyway here is the gist of mys setup.

Control Suface RemoteSL, Input Port 1 Output None (not sure if this is the issue) if I select Output as Remote SL it automaticly turns on template 40 (ableton live template)
Under MIDI Ports I have Input Remote SL Port 1 Track and Remote ON
Input port 2 all OFF
Input port 3 all OFF
Output sl 1,2,3 all OFF

Thanks again for the help
FRGus723

[FRGus723]

I have setup all the keys on the novation to send CC messages, maybe this is the issue.  Does Reaktor need different messages like NRPN, RPN, SYSEX?

[aeriae]

> I have setup all the keys on the novation to send CC messages, maybe this is the issue.

No no, CCs are good I think 99% of the controls I use on the Novation are sent and received via CCs.

I can't speak for what was going on when you were getting half-success with automap on, but let's forget about that for now. It's definitely time to replace any automap-wrapped plugins with the regular versions.

At a glance, your midi prefs in Ableton look right. And you've now got a template in the Novation which is sending CCs to Live.

First thing to check: Can you midi learn stuff in Live itself to the controller? EG - connect a track's volume fader to one of the faders on the Novation. If you can, then we know signals are getting from the Remote to Live, and that's the important half of the battle dealt with.

The second half is in getting the signals to Reaktor, because they don't go there automatically, you have to explicitly set it up:

Read this post below, it explains how to set the necessary routings in Live tracks to get your control data going into an incidence of Reaktor.

http://controllerism.net/forum/index.php/topic,68.msg217.html#msg217

[FRGus723]

Thanks Aeriae.  Yes I can control Ableton with the controller.  I have mapped most of the commands I use.  This took a few changes on the Novation as the template (36 by the way which is user and no automap) had basically nothing setup so every button did nothing.  I had to modify each button to be CC, then assign a number, a display type and whether it was toggle or momentry etc.  After some wrangling and trial and error I got most of what I need mapped.

Now for Reaktor.  I messed with it a little last night and now realize I can't even midi learn in Reaktor using my computer keyboard.  Something is not right in my setup for sending messages to Reaktor.  As an FYI, I also have an Axiom 61 controller and in the past had that controller controlling the reaktor plugins just like now.  This is the part that is most frustrating.  I know this has worked but I can't figure it out.

Anyway, back to Reaktor.  I guess I need to figure out first why I can't even map now with just the mac keboard.

The other oddity I have noticed is some buttons on the Novation (mostly buttons) when I press them, the light next to Key in the top right of Ableton lights and not next to the MIDI.  All the keys and sliders and pots do MIDI but not the buttons, they all light up next to Key.  I tried mapping like you would with a mac keyboard but that didnt work either.

I feel I am closer thanks to your help.  Once I get my Novation talking to Reaktor I should be fine from there as I have finally muddled my way through Moldovers ensembles enough to where I can get most things to work correctly.

Thanks again!

[FRGus723]

Yeah I am on board with most of that post as I actually added a little more to what you said in this post

http://controllerism.net/forum/index.php/topic,210.0.html

I am also using Moldovers Full Template which has most of the setup done for you as far as setting up the midi tracks to control the Reaktor tracks etc.  As I said in my earlier post, I cannot get my mac keyboard to control reaktor either so I think I need to get that going first and then I can probably get the RemoteSL going.  What else could I try to get the mac keyboard to control the reaktor plugins.  Not sure if you have the means of loading moldovers full template and seeing if he has it set up so it should work out of the box or if he left it so you just had minimal setup to do.  If the latter is the case, its possible I just missed something.  One thing I have noticed with this music stuff is if you have one output not set correct it can bring the whole thing down. 

I do have a few settings questions to double check against you but unfortunately I am at work and not lucky enough to have a music job where I could d!ck with this all day.  IT Software support is my gig and although I understand all the technobabble, it is all the music stuff I am now learning like potentiometers and gating, midi translation etc...UGH!  I will post some of my settings questions this evening.

Again I want to thank you for helping all these people out and not just me.  Taking on the probably unpaid job of music software teacher to thousands or more people is not always the enviable job.  But for me IT Support gives me satisfaction that I can help others out.  This is now frustrating as I would like to help others as well but don't know enough to help or will just give misleading info.  But I try.

[FRGus723]

Well I have made a little headway thanks to Lord V.  Essentially I have to have the output on my midi settings to get the Reaktor plugin to accept control codes from the Remote SL.  When I have it set to None it sends nothing.  Once I have set the Remote SL to output I can make changes and Reaktor midi learn works.  The odd thing is for some reason I can shut the Output in the midi settings off after midi learn and it still works.  Gremlin?