Author Topic: Ableton tips: volume gating and Quant/Non-Quant launching of the same clip  (Read 7326 times)

Moldover

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-------------From Jim:

I just upgraded to the REMOTE SL and dont expect to get nearly the results you do with your custom rig but I was wondering how you set the 1.)Volume Gate and the 2.) Track Repeats on the keys of the keyboard that sync up to controlling each track vs. individual clips. I downloaded your file and figured out the SCENE scrolling and the clip start button.

Just cant figure out how to get that transforming sound and the quick repeat when I am starting a track and not creating 50 clips for every single track.

It looks like it has something to do with the small track next to the track playing the clip that has the "SILENCE" clip in it.

-------------For Jim:

VOLUME GATING
The gating thing can't really be done with Ableton alone, but you can do a great fix with a free translator utility like MIDIpipe (mac) or MIDI OX (PC). The problem is that Ableton treats Note on messages as toggle commands.  Try assigning a keyboard key to the mute or volume controls on Ableton's mixer and you have to hit it TWICE to turn the volume on and off.  The easiest way I've found to change this toggle behavior, is to run your MIDI through one of the translator programs and simply tell it to take "Note off" messages and turn them into "Note on" messages.  This way you get 2 Note On messages each time you hit a key, giving you momentary behavior instead of toggle behavior from Ableton.  Make sense?  You can also try to score a copy of Reaktor 5.1.2 or later and just download my fader+punch patch from controllerism.com

QUANTIZED AND NON-QUANTIZED TRIGGERING OF THE SAME CLIP

I've done this a few different ways, but here is my favorite.  (it seems weird the first time you do it, but you'll get used to it)  You must be familiar with the "scene control" things that show up at the top of the mixer ONLY when you are "editing key map" or "editing MIDI map".  This only works in Ableton 6 or newer.

1) set global quatization to whatever you are comfortable with (I use 1-bar)
2) set up all your clips the way you want them, and set ALL their launch quantizations to "global"
3) create a silent audio clip and put one in each of the these tracks at the top of your session
4) set launch quantization for the silent clips to "none"
4) make a 2nd copy of EVERY SINGLE TRACK including EVERY SINGLE CLIP on those tracks.  We'll call these new duplicate tracks "instants"
5) Select only these new instant clips and set their quantization to "none"
6) for each or the old tracks, set up one MIDI button to the track start (scene control) AND set that SAME button to hit the stop button at the bottom of the instant track.  This means when you start a quantized clip, whatever is playing in the instant track stops at the appropriate time.
7) for each of the instant tracks, set up a different MIDI button to track start (scene control) AND set that SAME button to start the single silent clip in the old track.  This means when you start an instant clip, the silent clip will cause whatever is playing in the old track to be silenced.

So, just to explain- the reason for the silent clip is essentially this: all stop buttons are globally quantized.  To simulate a stop button that is NOT globally quantized, we just make a silent clip which can have a non-global quantization (in this example, none) and is in effect a stop button.  To make more sense of this setup, I have all my instant tracks super-narrow and just to the left of the old tracks.  This is a really nice way to visualize playback of the two versions of the clip.  Also, it makes sense to bus the two tracks to a third track, and put your effects on that track so that you don't have 2 copies of all your effects.

Enjoy,
( ! )
« Last Edit: June 18, 2008, 09:34:19 PM by Moldover »
( ! )
<a href="http://www.moldover.com">moldover.com</a>

cmcpress

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just download my fader+punch patch from controllerism.com

Can't seem to find this patch for some reason...  Any ideas?

Chris Kelly

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bump! i would love to add this patch to my "moldover tribute" template!

dowelljackconning

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Awesome! I the non-quantized re-trigger was on the top of allot of people's lists of things to know.

I was wondering though, how do you select clips from different scenes using your controller?

Thanks!

Chris Kelly

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Re: Ableton tips: volume gating and Quant/Non-Quant launching of the same clip
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2008, 03:07:21 AM »
with the volume gating, has anyone been able to get it working with midistoke or control aid?

S4racen

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Re: Ableton tips: volume gating and Quant/Non-Quant launching of the same clip
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2008, 11:08:53 AM »
Hi all,

Loving the forum, i spend more time configuring than playing these days and i'm guessing many of you do the same....

I'm still lost with the gating effect Moldover explains above, i've tried the fader punch ens. and i've tried a few translators in Bomes but still no joy....

What i'm after is to press a button on my padkontrol (i can set this to be a trigger with note on/off with each push or switch with note on then note off, or retrigger with note on with every push) it will then take over control of the fader, when i release it the fader will drop with a note off message and then rise the next time i push it, i then want this behaviour to coninute until i leave the button pressed and the note on message lasts for say 2 seconds.... Then i'll be able to stab in and out to my hearts content with just one button rather than having to use two..... Moldover appears to do it off of one black key on his controller?

Cheers
D



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S4racen

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Re: Ableton tips: volume gating and Quant/Non-Quant launching of the same clip
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2008, 04:02:51 AM »
http://abletonlivedj.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17921

A solution with LIve that doesn't need any translating.....

It is a solution to my particular request though so it might not be what your all looking for but it works a treat for me!

Cheers
D
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aeriae

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Re: Ableton tips: volume gating and Quant/Non-Quant launching of the same clip
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2008, 07:58:27 PM »
Glad you worked it out. I was still trying to fully understand the question :)

Btw that link requires registration on that site to be able to read it.

S4racen

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Re: Ableton tips: volume gating and Quant/Non-Quant launching of the same clip
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2008, 11:15:43 AM »
Good point, but it's also the best resource on the interweb for Ableton!

Cheers
D
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Serbyil

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Re: Ableton tips: volume gating and Quant/Non-Quant launching of the same clip
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2008, 07:54:38 AM »
QUANTIZED AND NON-QUANTIZED TRIGGERING OF THE SAME CLIP

I load my clips from the browser on-the-fly, so having a duplicate clip with different quantize is not an option for me.
I use bomes midi translator to send a global quantize message (ctrl-7=1/8 and ctrl 9=1) with my launch clip  button. so I have 4 buttons for sync start and the 4 keys below it for 1/8 quantize start.

Quantize 1/8 start - Note #1, F2,vel 127 - cc#1, controller 91, 127
Quantize key        - Note #1, F2,vel 127 - keystroke,ctrl(7)

first line to have a second launch button (tr 1 launch= cc 91)
sec line to send a quantize change with it

Normal start         - cc #1, 91, vel 127 - cc#1, controller 91, 127
sync                   - cc #1, 91, vel 127 - ctrl(9)

first line to let the midi thru bomes because a keystroke message eats it
sec line to sync 1 bar

make sure you have keys velocity fixed on 127


hope this is any help

D4g

remotecontrol

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Re: Ableton tips: volume gating and Quant/Non-Quant launching of the same clip
« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2008, 07:54:55 PM »
-------------From Jim:

I just upgraded to the REMOTE SL and dont expect to get nearly the results you do with your custom rig but I was wondering how you set the 1.)Volume Gate and the 2.) Track Repeats on the keys of the keyboard that sync up to controlling each track vs. individual clips. I downloaded your file and figured out the SCENE scrolling and the clip start button.

Just cant figure out how to get that transforming sound and the quick repeat when I am starting a track and not creating 50 clips for every single track.

It looks like it has something to do with the small track next to the track playing the clip that has the &quot;SILENCE&quot; clip in it.

-------------For Jim:

VOLUME GATING
The gating thing can't really be done with Ableton alone, but you can do a great fix with a free translator utility like MIDIpipe (mac) or MIDI OX (PC). The problem is that Ableton treats Note on messages as toggle commands.  Try assigning a keyboard key to the mute or volume controls on Ableton's mixer and you have to hit it TWICE to turn the volume on and off.  The easiest way I've found to change this toggle behavior, is to run your MIDI through one of the translator programs and simply tell it to take "Note off" messages and turn them into "Note on" messages.  This way you get 2 Note On messages each time you hit a key, giving you momentary behavior instead of toggle behavior from Ableton.  Make sense?  You can also try to score a copy of Reaktor 5.1.2 or later and just download my fader+punch patch from controllerism.com

QUANTIZED AND NON-QUANTIZED TRIGGERING OF THE SAME CLIP

I've done this a few different ways, but here is my favorite.  (it seems weird the first time you do it, but you'll get used to it)  You must be familiar with the "scene control" things that show up at the top of the mixer ONLY when you are "editing key map" or "editing MIDI map".  This only works in Ableton 6 or newer.

1) set global quatization to whatever you are comfortable with (I use 1-bar)
2) set up all your clips the way you want them, and set ALL their launch quantizations to "global"
3) create a silent audio clip and put one in each of the these tracks at the top of your session
4) set launch quantization for the silent clips to "none"
4) make a 2nd copy of EVERY SINGLE TRACK including EVERY SINGLE CLIP on those tracks.  We'll call these new duplicate tracks "instants"
5) Select only these new instant clips and set their quantization to "none"
6) for each or the old tracks, set up one MIDI button to the track start (scene control) AND set that SAME button to hit the stop button at the bottom of the instant track.  This means when you start a quantized clip, whatever is playing in the instant track stops at the appropriate time.
7) for each of the instant tracks, set up a different MIDI button to track start (scene control) AND set that SAME button to start the single silent clip in the old track.  This means when you start an instant clip, the silent clip will cause whatever is playing in the old track to be silenced.

So, just to explain- the reason for the silent clip is essentially this: all stop buttons are globally quantized.  To simulate a stop button that is NOT globally quantized, we just make a silent clip which can have a non-global quantization (in this example, none) and is in effect a stop button.  To make more sense of this setup, I have all my instant tracks super-narrow and just to the left of the old tracks.  This is a really nice way to visualize playback of the two versions of the clip.  Also, it makes sense to bus the two tracks to a third track, and put your effects on that track so that you don't have 2 copies of all your effects.

Enjoy,
( ! )


Respect to Moldover for everything he has done.
I followed the above directions and came close to pulling it off. Here is the problem - because the "silent clip" placed at the top of the column is triggered at the same time as the "non quantized instant" this causes the Highlighted Row to jump to the top so now my 8 buttons dont trigger anything but silent clips.... I hope this makes sense. I should also say that everything works perfect when i trigger the clips directly but obviously have the ability to shuttle to diferent rows is lost by addressing my midi this way.


SOS SOS SOS

S4racen

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Re: Ableton tips: volume gating and Quant/Non-Quant launching of the same clip
« Reply #11 on: January 01, 2009, 01:41:34 PM »
Aha, my problem initially as well, just enter into Lives preferences and find the option to select upon launch and unhighlight it, and that i believe is problem solved?

Cheers
D
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ashworth

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Re: Ableton tips: volume gating and Quant/Non-Quant launching of the same clip
« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2009, 05:06:12 PM »
just download my fader+punch patch from controllerism.com

Can't seem to find this patch for some reason...  Any ideas?


i can't find it either, its not in the controllerism 2007 zip....does anyone have a link to a d/l for it?

remotecontrol

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Re: Ableton tips: volume gating and Quant/Non-Quant launching of the same clip
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2009, 01:38:44 AM »
Aha, my problem initially as well, just enter into Lives preferences and find the option to select upon launch and unhighlight it, and that i believe is problem solved?

Cheers
D

YEAH!! worked like a charm.
THANKS!!

Mongrel

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Re: Ableton tips: volume gating and Quant/Non-Quant launching of the same clip
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2009, 10:48:26 AM »
Hi, Moldover thanks for putting up this forum! m loving it.. I am from india and there is not even a single controllerist out here! or any electronic artists using controllerism! Well; now i am gonna try  :D .. all thanks to you..

M a noob with reaktor, n m going through the manuals n tutorials n its beginning to make sense now.. i was able to setup most of your ensembles in my template..
however i am stiff confused about using "fader + punch" as a retrigger.
Can anybody please explain me how to get the retrigger to work on a audio track/clip in ableton!!

Cheers.