Author Topic: Best ways to dive into Controllerism  (Read 2637 times)

PELicanWord

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Best ways to dive into Controllerism
« on: August 13, 2008, 02:12:20 PM »
So, I've been producing for years now, and have recently found a lust for controllers and performing live. I have more than enough controllers and software to start "controlling", and I'm stoked there is now a place for us with a forum. What are some creative ways to get into controllerism, because it seems that, much like practicing with a band, you just have to sit down and turn some nobs and make some sounds. I'm thinking here of maybe some potential daily exercises or some sort of loose structure to start making sets for live performance, because more often than not, I'm making music by myself.

Any thoughts?

;D

aeriae

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Re: Best ways to dive into Controllerism
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2008, 10:30:29 PM »
Yeah. Boringly, I think the main thing is that you have to practise, no matter what setup you come up with. I'm at the stage where I've translated 2 going on 3 tracks from my studio work into my Live+Reaktor setup. These 2 have moderately specific setups, and I started feeling that if I had to remember overly specific setups for each track, I'm just not going to be able to handle it live. The more consistent the manner you set your rig up to work in across songs, the easier it will be to manage. So with the 3rd track I'm about to port across, I'm working on a more pattern-based system than I've used to date, which I hope I can use across subsequent tracks as well.

I think the very beginning of setting up anything like this is the most baffling part, as there's a million ways to do it. The way I've done it is: I take the view I need some sort of proposed structure for my controller(s), then I know I'll  need to port in my audio material (or prepare VI patterns, etc.) to fit into that structure. I port the stuff in then I start playing, and it sounds bloody awful at first, but gets better as I practise :)

I started with Moldover's Live/Reaktor setup, then started hacking it. I'm not doing DJ stuff and I need more than 5 tracks for control purposes. So I have 4 roughly dedicated channels (Drum, Bass, Mel, Vox - and vox is a bit loose as there are rarely vocals in a pop sense, but often there are chopped/mangled voices), then 2 channels that are more open in scope and can be used differently in every track, 1 channel connected to my keyboard for live playing and looping, and 1 master fader - total of 8, as per the Remot SL. Each channel has an FX smart knob which I can set to be whatever I want for each track. This is 'cos each track is a new Live set, which does mean I have to load a new file between each track. I use Reaktor to play fills between the tracks while I'm doing the loading, so the music never has to stop entirely. I use the black keys and other buttons to launch samples or new cues in the song. This has ended up requiring a bit more memorisation for each track than I think is easy, that's why I'm gonna try a new sequential pattern based approach next time.

Moldover

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Re: Best ways to dive into Controllerism
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2008, 06:02:19 PM »
Wow, sounds like a pretty serious rig.  When you get some audio or video recorded of your performances, I bet it would inspire a lot of people around here if you posted.  Good luck with the madness :-)

...I need to start practicing more to keep up with you crazy people...

Best,
( ! )
( ! )
<a href="http://www.moldover.com">moldover.com</a>

aeriae

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Re: Best ways to dive into Controllerism
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2008, 08:23:42 PM »
Thanks Moldover. Yeah, it's in danger of being a little too crazy atm ;) But yeah, I do hope to be able to put up a vid or recording when I get to that stage.

Kipp

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Re: Best ways to dive into Controllerism
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2008, 01:12:41 PM »
  The biggest rule when using Ableton in your digital set up is the "garbage in-garbage out" rule. Every single piece of music, be it a clip, loop, or a nine-minute-long audio track, should all be lined up to the all powerful time grid. Now, this time grid seems to be the same no matter which program you use. I take all of our music and run it through Acid Music Studio first. It is easy to run and only costs $70.00 (35 euros or pounds or guineas or whatever you guys are using these days across the pond). You can literally "stretch to fit" most music. The problems start, however, when you seek to insert a piece of music where the DJ or artist has re-started their music after a breakdown or there is a slight tempo change for whatever reason in the original track. This is rectified ONLY by thoroughly watching every single beat whizz by while zoomed in at the right increment on screen and running a set, looped beat above it so you can line it up visually. It sounds harder than it is, but it does have to be done. Acid music studio does have a Beatmapper function, but as with all computers and software, it tends to be not so intelligent and needs some nudging from you once in a while.  I cannot stress this enough, because the goal with using Ableton is to not have to concern yourself with synchronization while mixing/performing. Once you have your music lined up, however, you will never need headphones. We run up to eight stereo tracks at a time - Not always as it can get way too busy sounding. Minimal tracks are best used on top of entire songs, like beats or shakers, tambourines, etc...  Ableton, to its credit, does play pre-made complete loops well. You just have to make sure they are all lined up to the time grid or you will be pulling your hair out wondering why this thing doesn't work right.

   Kipp

DaCuntTrolla

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Re: Best ways to dive into Controllerism
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2008, 07:12:34 PM »
kipp

he knows whats up

thanks for the advice man thats really useful

greetz

~~DaCuntTrolla~~
« Last Edit: September 21, 2008, 07:14:07 PM by DaCuntTrolla »

radioscotvoid

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Re: Best ways to dive into Controllerism
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2008, 06:44:10 PM »
warp all your beats and sounds

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWv6Ef-MiCg

PELicanWord

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Re: Best ways to dive into Controllerism
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2008, 08:32:46 PM »
Man, that is quite a rig indeed... I had to step back and "visualize" what you were explaining for it to make sense, ha!

My controllerism is a bit different I think. Rather than using premade loops, I'm using sets of premade samples, drums, vox, FX, and instruments (bass, synths, etc) to do live looping. Each set is a pre-made Reason/SooperLooper set, that I controll with my MPD32, Xstation 25, and generic midi keyboard. I use the faders for, well, faders inside Reason, the pads for samples and drums, and the keys for the synths etc. I have some main FX's on the Master Fader with parameters mapped to my XY pad and some endless encoder knobs for dramatic sweeps and frequency cuts etc.

I have pads set up for the Record, Overdub, and Multiply functions, as well as buttons for Undo and Redo. This allows me to make whole songs on stage, live, without a click track needed. Everything loops to the 1st loop created, so the possibilities are endless.

Quote
I think the very beginning of setting up anything like this is the most baffling part, as there's a million ways to do it

This is so true. I just got over the daunting 2 month task of getting everything exactly the way I want it, now I just have to practice and make new sets and tweaks.

Basically I'm trying to put some life into the ever-so-tired Hip-Hop performance seen time and time again (ie two MC's and a CD player... SO lame).

Kipp

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Re: Best ways to dive into Controllerism
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2008, 12:11:36 PM »
Okay - So you're using Reason to do live remixes with? Different. I would suggest getting to know Ableton though - Every task I have wanted to perform has always proven to be possible with Ableton. It is all alone out there as far as having any other software that is similar - There is none. We use loops, but they are generally made by us with synths and sequencers. Sometimes we will loop other artists' music or even load their entire tracks in. There are no rules in our system You can change them all the time and we do. Generally I run four or so "cover" tunes from other DJ's on the bottom row in each column. The areas in Ableton above the cover songs are loops or clips of other artists or percussive elements. It is good to have a lot of percussion clips floating around that you can activate whenever. You start a kick on top of another artist's song and it gets mighty fat right then and there, but you can keep adding these extra "decorations" on the top until it starts getting muddy. If you have a lot of minimal elements it takes a while to get cluttered. That happens when you try to run more than one entire song with another - Like if you attempt to play three songs at once, they may be in sync, but there is just too much sound going on and it gets too busy. It is a lot like cooking in a way.

gbsr

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Re: Best ways to dive into Controllerism
« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2008, 10:02:14 PM »
ableton live together with reason is a very very very powerful combination.

as for OP: the main important thing to remember i guess is to make a template and stick with it. if you have a knob bank of say 8 knobs, and you want to further then just have 8 knobs, make sure to map everything to a knob that corresponds somewhat to what its doing.

my uc-16 is set up with only 4 knobs and 3+3 as eq knobs (one on the left side, one of the right), and these four top knobs are simply labeled feed, sync, rate and var.

everything feedback related in some way goes to feed, anything sync goes there, you get the idea. var is usually filter cuts/res and similar stuffs. also stuff like variation on beat repeat etc.

this way, no matter where i am, what effect i have on and what racks is on and off, i always know how to control them. that setup combined with the instant recal buttons for the 4 presets the uc-16 has is way good, and very well playable aswell.
 
once you start settings things up in a logical manner like this they will become second nature before you know it :)

also, using this kind of setup means that its expandable aswell, aslong as you follow your original design, in my case the four knobs. i also have some designated sliders controlling dry/wet and some buttons for on/off thats fixed aswell, no matter what fx etc im at.

Kipp

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Re: Best ways to dive into Controllerism
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2008, 07:47:48 AM »
   Man - there are so many ways to use Ableton and just as many controllers. There are also controllers that weren't meant to work with Ableton that do - The Logitech joystick for instance. I use it to "drive" around the screen and pick out clips one at a time. There are buttons on the joystick's base and on the top of the handle that I have assigned to toggle each track's effects on and off. The X Station's faders are used to fade each track in or out, and its joystick is assigned to control the effects' yellow circle controller. There are other functions I set up, but we just aren't using them. For instance, the cross fading from A to B - It is possible, but we don't use it. Or activating an entire scene or row in Ableton - because we can cherry pick the clips, we tend to not set off a whole row, mainly because our clips are pretty full to begin with. They are full songs on the bottom most four or five rows, and the upper part of the screen we reserve for percussive tracks or looped sections of songs etc...   We had a hard time getting a grip on how exactly we were going to use Ableton. It is so flexible, it can be used so many ways, you have to settle on one way eventually. We wanted to get to where we could just concentrate on our sets. We finally are there, but it was a wrestling match figuring out exactly which method we were going to go with.

gbsr

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Re: Best ways to dive into Controllerism
« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2008, 08:29:36 PM »
yep i agree. before you find your way its a complete mess.
i eventually also opted for the ability to either launch a whole scene, or individual clips.

i do however use the crossfader though, but not exclusively. its great for A/B glithy edits and doing your usual dj style cuts :)

Kipp

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Re: Best ways to dive into Controllerism
« Reply #12 on: November 03, 2008, 12:59:55 AM »
Ableton is full of tricks. I learned late in the process that you cvan pre-program the order of clips to be played and how many times it repeats before moving on to a new clip. It is very powerful. How do you interface Reason and Ableton anyway? Two laptops? MIDI? This interests me.

P Dub

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Re: Best ways to dive into Controllerism
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2008, 02:15:20 AM »
Kipp - I'm not sure if this is the only way. But you can use something called ReWire to use both Ableton and Reason together. The process itself it actually quite simple. You simply open up Live. Then you open up Reason. Reason automatically detects Live and configures itself so its output is sent to Ableton. Then in Ableton on the the column where all the master stuff is, over on the bottom by the volume is a button that looks like I-O. You click that then under the Audio column for clips it will say "Audio From" and you change it from the default value of "Ext. In" to "Reason".
Thats all there is to that. Now everything you do in Reason will be played through Live. And I'm assuming you will be able to use Live's effects on it as well but haven't had a chance yet to really play with this. And when you push the master play or stop on Ableton it will act the same way in Reason.
Thats about as much playing as I've done between the two programs since I just got Live the other day. I hope that was in depth enough for anyone who wants to try this idea at home.

Kipp

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Re: Best ways to dive into Controllerism
« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2008, 10:38:02 AM »
 Interesting. I'll have to look into that. I played around with Reason and I didn't care for it because it seeks to be like a real recording rig - Even patch cables! I prefer Acid, but if Reason can sync up with Ableton, that would be useful. I think just MIDI syncing a sampling groovebox up to our system might be a better alternative.